Simone Rocha and Francesco Risso on the Best Part of Being a Fashion Designer
A conversation between the two creatives, in celebration of 25 years of “A Magazine Curated By.”
This collection of conversations was curated over the past few months in preparation for this special issue, celebrating 25 years of creation. The opportunity to read dialogues between creatives—especially fashion designers—is rare, as they typically remain in their own spheres. Yet, each designer has a unique and direct relationship with the concept of creativity. This concept served as the guiding principle for these conversations, with the goal of gaining insight into how designers think about their processes and creations. It was essential as well to include the perspectives and stories of often “silent” participants in the creation of : the editors and art directors, who support and guide the designer in the making of their issue. I hope that in reading their words and those of the designers, you find inspiration to create for yourself. —
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For me, it all started when I was a child. I grew up in this very loud family. I was the youngest and all my brothers and sisters were much older than me. My dad would bring so many people around, and I was so silent. Then I discovered this drug that was making things. I would scavenge in our wardrobes and collide things together to make my own clothes, which was obviously a problem for my sisters. But I couldn’t stop. It was a way of talking because they were so loud, and that was my means of communication. Even now, I feel like I function creatively in order to make something that expresses emotion, a feeling, a gesture through a piece that may be simple but carries memory and meaning.It’s funny, when I was small, I was also really quiet.Really?I wasn’t shy, but I didn’t like to share. I had opinions, but I didn’t like to vocalise them. I always had an opinion of how I should feel in a room, how I should feel in a gang of people. I felt like I could do it through clothing, whether it was my uniform, how I wore it, or wearing a lot of my mum’s clothes, my dad’s clothes and vintage flea market finds. I was very quiet. I felt like my clothes did the talking. It was always a barrier between me and everybody else. I always found that people in a room who wanted attention would take off their clothes, and I would just be putting more on, going out in three coats.I love that.That was how I felt comfortable getting attention.That’s very similar to how I was feeling. I was literally cutting some of my sister’s clothes, and they were so mad. We laugh about it now. I tried to understand what it means. It was just this obsession.Did you feel unleashed when you came to Marni? I was looking at your , which is exquisite. It felt so unleashed. Do you feel now, in this role, that you get to be free?There were phases in which I felt more or less unleashed. When I started, no, I wouldn’t say that. The hard thing was to find a balance between what the founders had left and what people didn’t know about me — and still be very true to myself. That was one of my first declarations, that I am not Consuelo’s clone. In the beginning, it was about trying to be true to myself while also finding those things that some people thought were very Marni and some thought were not. That was interesting. Another thing that didn’t make me feel unleashed was that I had worked more than ten years by then, and I had to free myself from certain instincts and habits. Over time, I think we really found moments where we were all unleashing ourselves together in a very instinctive way, and that felt very beautiful.Yes, it’s a different feeling, actually. Weirdly, I felt much more free and frivolous when I did Jean Paul Gaultier. It’s ironic because with my own label, not that you’re shackled to it, but it is a different level of responsibility.You cannot mess up the most important thing, your integrity, when it’s your own name.When I was younger, I was much more frivolous and naive, which I think actually gave me the power to make collections that were very pure and very much my identity. There weren’t the constraints of being someone else, and people could harness that to build into the label. Now, it’s the place where I can do what I like, and I’m very lucky for that. So that brings a lot of freedom, but unfortunately, it also brings responsibility. But I think that is the game.That is the game, for sure.
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Some seasons are different. Some, you take with a pinch of salt, and then some collections just crush you.What I love about you is that, even though I haven’t been to your show, I can feel this strong emotional strength in what you do from far away. This summer in Greece, I was with some mutual friends who then came to my show, and they said, ‘It’s funny, we only have this much fun at Simone’s show.’Because I love the show. The show is the best bit.Yes, and I think that’s beautiful. Not just the show, but when I see your pieces in stores, I can see the same emotion I see in the show. That is freedom, but also the thing that holds you.It’s so complicated. In one way, it’s very powerful, because I work on the collection, and I love that. I look at it in a show context from the very beginning, how the show is going to look, feel, the clothes in the room, who’s going to wear it. But because I have my own stores, I work really hard to make sure that by the time it arrives there, anyone who walks in gets a little bit of that feeling.I love that.I think it’s really amazing. The stores are incredible. I’m very into conversation, which is funny because in one way, I’m very specific, but I also love collaboration. I let people talk, but I don’t listen to them.I completely get that.I thought the weight of those dresses in the palette of the white paper room was just amazing.Thank you so much. It was fun, and yet, as you said, every season is different. There are seasons in which you feel more or less unleashed, and those limits unfold in a way that makes you evolve. Times are crazy right now. I don’t know about you, but I am so attached to this beautiful ritual of making that we have here: the team, the people who work on the music even, like Dev Hynes and the others. We’re all quiet; we observe the world and the situations we’re in. I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I keep thinking about how sometimes it’s also good to limit yourself. This feels like a moment where we need to dream, but also have a sense of contemplation and deep thinking. Nothing should become a waste. There’s already so much wasted energy, bad energy and bad things happening in the world. When I started wanting to do this job, I always thought I would bring something good to people, bring some kind of pleasure or joy. And yet, this work can sometimes feel so flamboyant.I feel indulgent in a time of contemplation. It’s something we’ve been talking about here, knowing when to push and when to pull back. Right now, especially as we both obviously have collections coming up, all you can do is your best, put your best foot forward, and do what feels right for you at the time. I find the unnecessary competitiveness exhausting. Because it’s not about individualism, it’s not about personality, it’s about clothing telling you something when you wear it, making you feel something, or making one person feel one thing and another feel something else. That’s why this is nice, that they asked us all to talk to each other. But in the industry as a whole, everything is more conflictive, more aggressive. And is it our place to be aggressive?I wish that somebody in these companies would just be brave enough to say that. It would be nice to hear.That’s something I feel very fortunate about — being independent. You do get to set the pace. But you’re still in the industry, so you also have to run the race.But you’re turning the stock inside out. That’s good.You told me you came to London in the summer for an art project. Did that happen?I did. I locked myself in a warehouse for 15 days and painted. It was incredible. I hadn’t been painting in such a long time. I do it sometimes at Marni, but always with a specific objective in mind. This was different. I was with two other artists who had been commissioned for a project, and they wanted me to be part of it, which was really beautiful. I found myself in this completely meditative zone, painting 12 by four metre canvases, just painting and painting. I had time to think and also not to think. I realised I could just throw this painting out of the window and it would be fine. It was so liberating. Some of the drawings became part of this last collection and the one we’ll show in February, which will be the culmination of this whole process.Fantastic.
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It was an incredible experience. The most beautiful thing was working with these two other artists, Sloan and Soldier. We come from such different backgrounds, but what united us was this freedom of just making things. There was no need to prove anything, no need to turn the work into something political or controversial. It was just about mixing our knowledge, almost like a dance of hands. That felt fresh and inspiring.I think we do have to mentally and physically take ourselves out of our routine. You can’t keep giving, the way we do every six months, without stepping outside yourself. It’s necessary.Do you lock that time for yourself?Not really.You have to do it more. If you don’t do it, you have to.I know. It’s strange for me. I get a lot of adrenaline from knowing what I have to do. I have two incredible daughters, a nine-year-old and a three-year-old. They really take me out of myself. Their naivety, their whimsy, their excitement — it’s freeing. I think I’d be a lot more tortured without them.Yes, absolutely. That’s beautiful.And I swim a lot. I grew up in Ireland, an island surrounded by water. I feel very calm when I swim. Now I swim in a reservoir in London. That’s my break.We deserve more and more of that. I think it’s not necessarily about more, but about recognising its importance. I hadn’t done something like this in a long time. I do many other things, but this was both work and something I hadn’t touched in such a long time, so I was quite surprised about how it affected me. I’m super, super grateful.Sometimes I work with friends on different films, and it’s great to still be in our practice, but in a completely different way. it’s nice to be on the same level as someone else and create something different together. I think that’s something that has shifted today. Designers like us and those before and after us now have more understanding and license to let our practice ebb and flow in different ways. Fashion, whether fortunately or unfortunately, touches everything. That’s also what I loved in your . The mix of illustration, handwork, and of course, photography. Fashion has always observed photography, but you championed illustrating your process differently. I think that’s quite new, or at least newly embraced.What are you hating at the moment?Oh my God. What am I hating?I’m curious. What’s your struggle?Do you know what I find so boring? Everyone is constantly talking about people moving around.Yes! I was just about to say that. I had this conversation five minutes ago with a friend, and I said, ‘I’m so happy I’m not caught up in that gossip game.’It’s so silly.So silly and so diminishing to everything we do. It’s not about that. I hope there’s going to be some rebalancing because it’s getting out of control.Exactly. We’re not footballers being transferred from AC Milan to Manchester. It’s crazy. And it’s quite diminishing to the actual work. Obviously, some appointments are fabulous. Some, I just think…okay?There’s an excitement in discovering talent and the work they might bring.But the work isn’t even out yet.The news of movement has overtaken the entire practice, the artwork, even the essence of the brands themselves. I hope someone out there hears this.I know. It’s like the emperor’s new clothes some days, which is ironic, considering we all make them.
